########################### [11:04] MEETING LOGGING BEGINS! ########################### so, welcome all :) http://wiki.mediagoblin.org/Meeting#Next_Meeting is the agenda of sorts by the way, who's here and watching the meeting? [11:05] * joar * frewsxcv * bcs [11:06] * gandaro I'm here, though attending to a baby * AVRS * bcs didn't even know you could just do "/me" without text :) * warp * paroneayea obviously ;) nice! so we often start off by talking about the state of the last month and what's coming up * renilgh (: [11:07] so if anyone have thoughts on recent development and how things are going, it's a good time to raise it I might as well say here in case anyone missed it: I'm transitioning out of my job at CC to spend more time on mediagoblin so things have been a bit slow lately from my end, and that was partly because I was preparing for the transition and figuring things out [11:08] * frewsxcv applauds but for the next 2 months I am working part time! so my "office hours" are thurs-sat, sometimes sunday and after 2 months, I'm not sure, though it's certain to be at least that much time or more. so anyway :) I'm excited about that. now I just need to figure out a way to support myself in the process ;) anyway, we have some stuff on the agenda, anyone want to make other comments about recent development stuff before we hit the agenda? reflections, etc? [11:09] * paroneayea takes that as a no :) [11:10] h'okay, so I'm just going to ramble through things. Please, please interrupt me if you have any thoughts or things to disccuss. Otherwise I'll be unsure and will just keep rambling ahead, and I'd prefer people discuss thing as we go :) moving through the agenda line by line... so yeah, we've had a ton of wiki spam problems, there's a new "goblin army" group that you have to be in in order to make a new page (not to edit though) [11:11] if you somehow aren't in that PM me and let me know. with your username I'll be sure to add you post-meeting aside from that, the other big announcements are kind of related: plugins and theming [11:12] http://docs.mediagoblin.org/#part-2-plugin-writer-s-guide is a dead link derp AVRS: http://docs.mediagoblin.org/pluginwriter/foreward.html working for me? oh, no http://docs.mediagoblin.org/pluginwriter/quickstart.html sorry, the page is too short ah, yeah it's just linking ot the fragment [11:13] the id on the page anchors don't work well on short pages yeah :) will the plugin support slow down mediagoblin perceptibly? so here's the state of things: will landed the plugin "basics". They're pretty basic: you can add plugins and register them. and there's a branch that I have to review with the first major plugin: flatpages gandaro: I don't think so, or at least not yet [11:14] I figure plugins, as they're currently developed, will usually be developed pretty close to the core of mediagoblin How many plugins have been developed so far? only one :) flatpages are there plans to implement any core features as plugins? however I intend to see if I can break out the openstreetmaps stuff as a plugin yes, the above at least [11:15] maybe other things part of the plan is at the moment ratings? and similar tagging is that will has kind of a list of the "types" of hooks we'll be giving to plugin authors, and we'll be implementing them as people need them = metadata Is there a wiki page created for a list of plugins? AVRS: yes, both of those would be stellar as plugins just this: http://wiki.mediagoblin.org/PluginSystemDesignDocument [11:16] it's kind of outdated we have some use cases listed on there if you have ideas on more, please list them and if you want to develop a plugin yourself, and want to jump on this please, please let me know I'd like to help anyone who's interested in starting work on this get the ball rolling anyway... I'm not sure how much more there is to say on plugins other than what was just said? [11:17] EXIF could be split out? [11:18] hm, exif well, the exif display almost certainly how will plugins be distributed / installed from an end user perspective? *** larjona (~larjona@141.pool85-53-7.dynamic.orange.es) has joined channel #mediagoblin it might make sense to have the simple "recording" of exif data as we have it to the database be just kept as part of the image plugin balleyne: aha, great question so we're planning to use python's packagin g so python eggs / source dists, etc [11:19] that's how willkg designed this sweet so you can theoretically ./bin/easy_install gmg_supergoblins and get the supergoblin extension or whatever less lame plugin name :) maybe later we'll do something smart by having a plugin listing thingy or something built into some future admin something for now, just using the python tooling from the command line [11:20] oh also plugins are configured currently via sections it's something like [plugins] [[mediagoblin.plugins.flatpages]] herp = derp I think and "configuring" a section turns that plugin on. anyway, I still need to review willkg's code (and hopefully will today) anything else on plugins? [11:21] it'd be good to disable them temporarily easily sure, comment it out ;) with all the settings? yes unfortunately for now. I don't know of a better way to do it considering the setup we have ok thoughts welcome, though I think this is mostly willkg's domain and sadly he couldn't make this meeting [11:22] so if that's it(?) I'll move onto theming [[-mediagoblin.plugins.flatpages]] AVRS: oh, interesting idea [11:23] AVRS: could you bring that up with willkg post-meeting? paroneayea: ok if I don't forget :) so, theming! as some of you may have seen, I'm working on theming support in ini files you can just put a semi-colon in front of a line to disable it [11:24] so: ; [[mediagoblin.plugins.flatpages]] ;) gandaro: hmmm gandaro: there are settings in the section or isn't that ini? aah I'm not sure that works for configfile syntax thoguh AVRS: I understand now ^^ for a whole section yeah so anyway, on theming, I have this joke-theme as a test, "goblincities" (think geocities) http://cwebber.pagekite.me/ [11:25] it's intentionally terrible. but anyway, there are two things demonstrated here: - you can override templates in your theme - you can provide your own custom assets (see the rotating gif) [11:26] similarly, css files, etc so, I'll probably have this wrapped up this weekend or early next "work week" (thursday-fridayish next week at worst) huh you can save favorites? oh [11:27] ha that text is wrong I wonder when it got added * paroneayea files a TODO to correct filed anyway my thoughts are two things at the moment: 1) we need some people willing to step forward and help to make *real themes* [11:28] both because we want them and what's the point of having a theming system without them :) gandaro: where is that mentioned? [11:29] and also because we're going to be making release notes, and I really don't want the screenshot to be of the goblincities theme :) AVRS: on the home page of mediagoblin pages AVRS: frontpage of mediagoblin instance currently (incorrectly) say sit I'll fix it paroneayea: I'll make one ho, in the English version frewsxcv: awesome :D …and Russian too so that's 2) if you're interested in working on one, you should start talking to me, and I can walk you through the process of making one [11:30] and German too! ;) part of the process of making themes is we'll probably be finding out that we'll want to be having more sections of the templates be more extensible Maybe we presumed it to be alpha, being worked on etc. and also more things marked up to be css'able so if in working on themes you find you need things to be more extensible [11:31] just let me know, or even patches welcome :) should there be a download link even if the license is "All rights reserved"? frewsxcv: anyway, noted, I'll let you know when the thing gets close gandaro: I don't see why not gandaro: personal use, fair use etc propreitary doesn't mean "you can't download" AVRS: fair use? usa-thing [11:32] gandaro: and also "other licenses" gandaro: that's what "All rights reserved" actually means. I think the idea that "you can't download" is kind of the new "streaming mentality" (in GMG at least) *** chaos8 (~chaos@46.48.245.90) has joined channel #mediagoblin all rights reserved means it's default copyright status, not that we're implementing lockdown support we could have a checkbox for not allowing the download [11:33] I don't really want to implement that right now gandaro: "do not store the original file"? oh as for not storing the original file there's some stuff already where you can set those options for videos anyway. "Do not offer download links" ;) gandaro: that's silly gandaro: only makes sense with DRM [11:34] even so, I think giving the impression that the web isn't a document store and that things are undownloadable is semi-problematic that would make mediagoblin more mainstream-friendly if we want to add "don't show download link" stuff anyway, we might be able to do it, but I think that's a tangental conversation and is probably worth discussing in a ticket and probably needs to be implemented on a per-mediatype level anyway. [11:35] Implement the download link as a plugin with more features instead? ;) If I may say so, the lack of a download link won't stop people from gtting copies of things that they want anyway. we can have a ./bin/easy_install ruintheweb plugin later :) jxself: yeah so, anyway [11:36] moving on! anything else theme related? someone put keyboard shortcuts on the agenda http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/346 was that joar? I imagine I (or someone) will need to develop a GNU theme at some point. [11:37] I will make the download links consistent for audio and video … jxself: cool, I'll be happy to work and help you with that gandaro: yes that's one thing we should do for sure make it so they aren't scattered around inconsistently as they are now same thing with ascii art it should really go in the sidebar. gandaro: if you want to file a bug for that, it would be great [11:38] else I'll do it post-meeting I don't know anything about screen readers; maybe it's already time to test with them AVRS: accessibility testing is welcome I'll do that I've thought of reaching out to frostbite / Jonathan Nadeau wlel [11:39] accessibility on a media page? Subtitles, etc. since he's nice, likes mediagoblin, uses a screen reader, and is working on an accessibility nonprofit and also think about audio support and etc if you want to follow the W3C accessibility guidelines, you would need to provide texts for everything: images, music, video … [11:40] yes it'll be a long path forward to reach everything, but we should shoot for it I think subtitles are a good plugin candidate also testing it now is probably premature. gandaro: I mean pay attention at least check how it works now [11:41] yes, it should be part of our planning to handle accessibility even if not our top priority immediately gandaro: or it might get too stable without accessibility and difficult to change [11:42] * paroneayea nods I've made a note to send frostbite an email and see what he thinks [11:43] I think gandaro is right that we probably can't tackle it full-on right now, but AVRS is also right that we should be planning and attempting to slowly address things some things are probably not too hard to start tackling! gandaro: just one article http://www.marcozehe.de/2012/07/06/are-web-apps-accessible-enough-to-replace-desktop-applications-any-time-soon/ okay, hm, so I'm not sure who raised keyboard shortcuts [11:44] and if they have anything else they want to discuss related to them. I'll take that as a no :) [11:45] Wiki says added by Joar. * paroneayea pokes joar * joar twitches [11:46] :) joar: anything else related to keyboard shortcuts before we move on? said goodbye to the family, they're heading to Denmark :) ohh :) Keyboard shortcuts would be great. That's all I think. [11:47] ha :D well, agreed I guess the one thing to say on that front is "anyone want to jump on that task?" Yeah one thing we used to do more of and stopped doing it seems is using meetings as a time to delegate tasks [11:48] I wonder if we should return to that somewhat or how the old "everyone scramble on an etherpad" method seemed to be kinda mixed in its success and I think people got tired of it In my opinion: They would be great, but are they that demanded? Seems like there are bigger fish to fry [11:49] you are right, there are probably bigger fish to fry, but if someone really really wants them, they're welcome to tackle it I think but yeah, there are some higher priority things at the moment [11:50] prev/next shortcuts actually, okay, this lines directly up with the next meeting agenda item or even buttons which is on ticketing triaging and assignment which I guess leads to a few questions: should we have better structure around ticket triaging? more coordination? [11:51] also how about assigning people to tickets and resolving dangling things are we really doing this the best way? what could we do better? shawnrisk has very enthusiastically been trying to help people find tickets to look at... part of it might just be that it's a matter of more energy being spent on tasks [11:52] but maybe we should also be spending more time on organizing our milestones and etc? maybe no thoughts on that then :) [11:53] What does triaging mean here? I think it would be helpful to have more energy going into the project before we worry too much about how it gets organized. [11:54] bcs: I think you probably are right I know we've done well with tickets before but with the lull I feel like we're not at the point where that's as helpful right now. bcs: so maybe we should reframe that and ask what we can do to get more energy into the project :) * bcs says this as someone trying to get back in himself. Made one commit in a branch earlier this week at least. aside from me quitting my job ;) [11:55] One thing I think would help would be a good demonstration site. (which I say jokingly and non-jokingly... I think the project needs more responsiveness and direction to people trying to help, which is one reason I'm making this change) yes I know a couple people have tried to run that in the past, but it is expensive and creates administrative overhead dealing with people with malicious intent. [11:56] At Mozilla QA, triaging means mostly moving bugs to the appropriate components. But here, the issue tracker is different and there are no tens of components? Maybe the way to go is not to encourage a big fancy site but encourage more people to install and run it themselves. Which would be more in keeping with our goals of federation, etc., even though we don't have federation working yet. bcs: yes... that's also tricky though! We need to make it easier for people to do that Yea. [11:57] but I agree, we should be focusing on that oh, I guess we are about to run out of time, so I should say one more thing on the building energy side of things I'll be at OSCON giving a mediagoblin talk in 2 weeks so if anyone else is gonna be at OSCON be sure to say hello... I'll be there the whole week :) [11:58] and if you know people going to OSCON, trick them into coming hear me ramble :) wow what happened to my grammar * jxself will be at OSCON well you know what I mean oh sweet jxself: look forward to seeing you there :) I'll be staffing the FSF booth so probably won't have time to go to any of the talks. :( [11:59] jxself: well I will stop by to chat then at least :) Good good. :) so anyway, yeah! [12:00] paroneayea: Which day are you speaking? friday I think let me see the schedule http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/23987 yup, friday at 11AM well we're just about at the end of this meeting [12:01] there was that lull for a while, but it feels like things are picking up... it would be good if we could do a release at the end of this month :) and if we can get plugins and the basics of theming in that's 2 great reasons for a release! [12:02] :) alright all, I'm going to kill the "logging" now thanks everyone! and happy hacking :) and all other contributing too :) [12:03] ============ END LOGGING! ============