**** LOGGING STARTS NOW! **** when will logging start? [11:03] a minute ago! :) okay all, so hey 0.3.0, out the door! Yow! I know it seems like to me like every release is our most exciting yet but :) I feel like this one was a real accomplishment, and it took a bit longer, but it was worth it! [11:04] so everyone feel great for a moment! and pat yourselves and each other on the back! especially elrond so that this "oh yeah we're going to switch to SQL somehow" thing magically came true with his craaaazy work :) also a great release blogpost on this one, eh? :) http://mediagoblin.org/news/mediagoblin-0.3.0-rise-of-the-robogoblins.html [11:05] by the way, as usual, I tend to ramble so don't be afraid to interrupt me; that's almost ideal :) so the next bit on the agenda is discussing how we feel this process went :) and what we might want to think about for next release! [11:06] I think we said we expected that a bunch of things would be suspended by the SQL transition, and they were, but nonetheless a lot of cool things got done. I mean, audio and mobile layouts, and etc... not bad at all :) however maybe our bugtracker got a bit neglected, which would probably be my fault [11:07] I feel like I didn't totally understand *how* disruptive it would be. I think part of the reason my ASCII reprocessing bits didn't get in is because I started the branch before the switch and finished it after and unsurprisingly merging was a big deal. [11:08] * paroneayea nods I don't blame anybody for merging being a big deal, it's a good change, but I wish I had known to hold off, or hurry it up, one or the other. :) that's probably true [11:09] what's the next release date? This is partly because I came in in the middle of the work for this release though. and we should probably be better at messaging things like that when people are working on those though even so, I think things were *less* disruptive than *I* expected, because I didn't expect that we'd be able to keep the mongokit like API the way we did I think that's my main takeaway from it, yeah. It would be helpful to be mindful of in the future. tychoish, I think we are hoping to do an every other month release yeah [11:10] so I guess next one should be in July *** raignarok (~quassel@p54897F38.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit: Ping timeout: 248 seconds I really want to make the docs better by the next release bcs: but yes point taken, and we should be more careful about messaging that to contributors tychoish: YES! July 4th? *** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0C2F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds *** lorochka85 (~lorochka8@c-67-175-17-167.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined channel #mediagoblin [11:11] freedeb: haha, that would be fun (though just to us amurricuhns) I do like all the cutesy little "Declare your independence from proprietary web services!" things we could do with a July 4 release. US-centric as it is. my may is pretty busy, but june is comparatively clear for me, so I should be able to get it in tychoish, are you thinking about formalizing docs with soemthing like Sphinx yeah bcs: especially if federation is actually well underway exactly *** Tekk_ (~user@cpe-071-077-203-175.ec.res.rr.com) has joined channel #mediagoblin or just improving them generally oh cool [11:12] heya Tekk_ welcome to the meeting :) anyway yes anything else on reflection points? tychoish, if you ever want/need another pair of eyes on the docs [11:13] I'll take that as a no paroneayea: hi let me know yes. would greatly appreciate. it can be really difficult to maintain distance in that process *** Zombie (~Zombie@190.162.24.16) has joined channel #mediagoblin okay, so cleanup conversation [11:14] I guess Elrond isn't here, but I just wanted to say, I wonder if we should think about shifting around some of the .find() mongokit style api to more sqlalchemy specific APIs we really don't need that anymore and it would be good to be consistent with the system we're using even if the old stuff was useful for transitioning ... I'm not really anticipating much disagreement on that, so that's probably a: [11:15] do we have to be compatible with mongokit still? joar: no. we aren't supporting it anymore hacker here. ;) TODO (cwebber): file bug to switch .find() statements over to more sqlalchemy type queries heya jpope ! that also reminds me [11:16] in our really early metings although the mongo->sql migrations will still be if we change things in our application. people used to "claim" bigger tasks as we went through the meetings I'm generally in favor of reducing the number of API wrappers we have. Ones that provide utility are fine, but merely translating one API to another just increases the number of things contributors need to know for little gain. joar: yeah though I think after next release that will be removed and we don't need to keep that in the views, etc bcs: yes, 100% agreed [11:17] okay, cool anything else on the cleanup front? seems like we have a HUUUGE stock of "next goals" things to go through :) and I anticipate that's going to take a lot of time to talk through so if nobody minds let's go ahead willkg couldn't make the meeting (traveling) but I have an update from him on where plugins are at [11:18] http://pastebin.com/u5wpcr9s [11:19] people probably want a minute to read that :) but basically sounds like, "the absolute core bits of plugins are working, though not really the hooks, but we're hoping to get all that rolling along for next release, and a good first plugin will be a flatfiles plugin" [11:20] Would attachments be a plugin too? [11:21] so, sounds like good news :) gandaro: yes, I think we should make attachments a plugin as well as the openstreetmap support core exif processing should stay in there (exif display maybe another matter) What do you see as being the boundary between core functionality and things that should go in plugins? [11:22] but images, videos and audio are core functions of mediagoblin and therefore not plugins? bcs: good question, and I think the answer is "we'll have to do a lot of discussion" gandaro: images, video, and audio are already *almost* plugins, the closest thing we have to them! they will always be bundled with mediagoblin and you can already enable/disable them the question is, "should we shift media types also over to the plugin infrastructure" [11:23] and I think the answer is, "we can see when we have the plugin infrastructure and some written how good an idea that is, but it might make sense" so media types might be a special type of plugin. It's not clear they already act like a special-case one. bcs: to further comment on that I think for example elrond was talking about "private sharing" and etc [11:24] and we thought for example with that it might be too hard to make it a plugin because it would require so much retooling everywhere to filter queries and etc and so maybe it should be core to further confuse things I anticipate we'll have some "core/official plugins" bundled with mediagoblin :) and some other ones installable via traditional python packaging [11:25] the "installable and loadable via python packaging" and etc is partly what willkg is working on, and that and the plugins registering themselves already seem to work and have tests so I think we'll need to explore as we go and keep talking about it as a community bcs: is that a good-ish answer? *** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined channel #mediagoblin *** dejongge1 (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined channel #mediagoblin [11:26] I'd like to see an openid login. Possible plugin maybe? *** ey3bl33d| (~ey3bl33d@rrcs-24-103-234-74.nyc.biz.rr.com) has quit: Quit: Bye jpope: I think we should be working on making authentication systems have hooks into them, yes [11:27] and that might be a plugin, as well as browserid support captchas also a plugin I also anticipate "user upload limits" will be a plugin paroneayea: Yeah, that's reasonable. and of course we'll have the "fiscalbovine" for people trying to turn mediagoblin into a cash cow ;) [11:28] haha bcs: great mediagoblin.plugins.fiscalbovine oh yeah, just one more thing the way you configure plugins is like this: *** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit: Read error: Operation timed out It sounds like the ideal right now is to have everything new be a plugin, unless it requires too much hacking on the existing core. [plugins] [[mediagoblin.plugins.fiscalbovine]] make_tons_of_money = true And maybe even move some existing core functionality out into plugins. bcs: I agree, to the extent that we can keep things from getting spagetti'ish [11:29] but we shouldn't rush things moving out of core either if we're unsure okay, anything more on plugins? At halfway mark on the meeting and we're like 30% through our agenda :) [11:30] federation is a big topic too so I want to get into talking about it okay, no objections, let's talk about federation okay, what will be federated? :) [11:31] *** dejongge1 (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) is now known as dejongge_ [11:32] dejongge1: roughly: galleries, subscriptions, favoriting galleries as in like "flickr pool" and maybe more things but those are the core goals it should be possible to subscribe to comments to one's files AVRS: you mean like get email notifications? paroneayea: for example. we actually have a branch sitting around that I think needs to be merged :) [11:33] with support for that but I'm not sure that's federation related so that's the thing: my plans are that my *personal* involvements in mediagoblin are going to shift into two things I'll be wrapping up a few stray merges (if anyone has time who has done significant contributions, PLEASE help me out with this) but I then want to dive straight into federation work. we're one year in and it's time to make this happen :) [11:34] so part of my weekend this week is to work on writing out a plan for what I need to do on that [11:35] i guess we're not going to do that from scratch? do we have any "role models"? and I might be gone for next week saturday, but otherwise next weekend sunday at least I hope to be 100% in submerged federation work mode paroneayea: After I prep my ASCII processing branch for merging, which I hope to do this weekend, I'd be happy to help review other merges. the federation protocol, that is dejongge_: OStatus :) ah, thought so :) [11:36] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.network.federated.mediagoblin/209 http://gobblin.se/u/avrs/m/pronunciation-of-%22kuneco%22/ :) so okay bcs: awesome, and much appreciated so, have we talked enough about mediagoblin where it's really just simply dive-in time? I'm going to start work but then am happy to loop in people who want to start working on pieces after I get the new feed library written [11:37] *** edu (~eduu@p5DD2E94B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined channel #mediagoblin step 0: adjust some of my planning for federation stuff, step 1: working on feed library stuff those are my next plans :) if there's nothing else maybe we should move onto the next meeting topic! :) [11:38] paroneayea: I have a lot of things in flux right now, so I can't commit to huge things, so I'm looking for tasks that are "small" but maybe not so easy. bcs: great :D hello i'm sitting here with elrond edu: oh awesome! in person? :) I thought elrond hid under a magical forest spell obscuring himself from true human vision [11:39] :) okay, next item bit maybe is favoriting then [11:40] * edu looks right at him how do you know he didn't? tychoish: :) aaronw isn't here, but he started a favoriting branch as well as a "user galleries" branch I don't know what state they are in I know he stopped when he decided he wanted to wait till we had joins support why is it "take that Pinterest" ? I haven't looked at pinterest before so not sure :) [11:41] are we going to let people "pin" into their MediaGoblin accounts? oh freedeb: that was my entry it's basically this, step 1 you stick a little button on your browser bookmarks bar pinterest let's users pick favorite pictures and add them to their wall [11:42] thus the similarity and step 2, press that button and things go onto a board ah :) step 3 other users can favorite, comment or repin yeah I don't know how the UI will look, for now I assume a list of favorites will be kind of like a gallery, currently like /u/cwebber/favorites/ [11:43] there are also categories that you can use to sort your pins has a list of thumbs of things I like or search for other people's I don't think we're going that complex as pinterest for now yet though yeah maybe we should keep it simpler than pinterest for now I don't think we should redo Pinterest keeping simple is good; we can always get more complex with time as becomes logical look at twitter: there is a "favorites" stream, but it still looks the same like any other stream right [11:44] I think it will be like that. ok so the main thing is that someone needs to re-pick up the work; presumably aaronw, so presumably this is just "chris should ping aaronw" :) TODO (cwebber): ping aaronw ;) same with galleries we should talk about theming then [11:45] * paroneayea summons schendje also :) * schendje is here [11:46] SASS is too heavy maybe. I had some conversation with aaronw about this a while ago, but can't find it so here is real magic at work? I think it's pretty simple I have a pretty clear plan for it aha [11:47] notes! I think the pinterest use case just sounds like images etc. having a standard (optional) URL annotation. Perhaps you have such metadata already? The rest is just UI A theme can be described in a tarball or directory like: [11:48] - sometheme/templates/ - sometheme/static/ problem is: how to static serve theme stuff? well, we have tags, not categories so we talked about having a tool something like ./bin/gmg install_theme coolthemebro.tar.gz [11:49] that would do you have some theme directory, and it pushes to - themes/ - themes/templates/theme1/ - themes/templates/theme2/ - themes/static/theme1/ - themes/static/theme2/ that way you could static serve themes/static/ as you have it set up in your mediagoblin.ini and apache/nginx config whoa running out of time I'll write this up in a bug, but if you want to work on theming [11:50] ping me TODO (cwebber): put theming plan in a bug edu: elrond had thoughts on access restrictions not sure if he wants to comment on them paroneayea, i'll give him the kbd... [11:51] *** lorochka85 (~lorochka8@c-67-175-17-167.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has quit: Quit: Leaving. (Elrond) Yes, I had some ideaas on permissions. What should we talk about? edu: (Elrond:) we're running short on time... should we take this post-meeting? :) [11:52] and just agree it's something to work on for this release? to start on in this cycle (Elrond) Yes. When I'm at home I can typ easier. [11:53] okay, we'll do that :) okay, a few more things in next goals, let's breeze through them if we can.. I'll make comments, if someone wants to talk further, we can: - What about traffic? Some of us will host GMG on limited plans. <- yes, as said, I think upload limits is a planned plugin - Some kind of coding guidelines? Do we have a philosophy like "Keep it Simple, Stupid" <- see hackinghowto, refers to PEP-8 [11:54] If you want to limit *traffic*, doesn't that have to happen in Apache/nginx? bcs: ah yeah, I guess I meant uploads Having an upload limit won't stop someone from uploading 500GB, it'll just stop 500GB from being saved in your data store. yeah I'm not sure there's much we can do in mediagoblin side maybe [11:55] except for maybe saying "you've reached the display limit" and refuse to serve the media that was me who added it so i need to configure it in my webserver, yeah? but that could also a plugin, though a maybe semi weird/wonky one dejongge_: yes possibly, I'm not sure dejongge_: That would be the most surefire solution. okay, i just didn't know about that :) bcs: paroneayea: We're talking about a "monthly upload quota" or similar, right? Not max post size? [11:56] joar: I think there are multiple things being discussed :) Oh, are we? Yeah, it sounds like it. :) the "monthly upload quota" is the one I want to see happen and want to do in a plugin. so we need plugin support, then we can add it :) - Podcasting support? <- basically, after we add the new feed system, we should add enclosures. So, if interested in this, talk to me, though I need to write the new feed system first :) [11:57] that's it for features, other things are "things hanging" stuff I want to get to two more things first jancborchardt has worked to get some university students to work on UX stuff, so horray! jancborchardt: if you want to say things, go ahead, but I don't know if you're here paroneayea: Real quick, on goals, my personal goal would be to get #419 fixed properly like we discussed. A monthly upload quota sounds like an odd limitation, don't people generally just have a limited amount of space period? Why monthly? more UX! [11:58] bcs: YES. bcs: not sure if you still want to do that one, but agreed, that's a next-release high priority and it should be done. paroneayea: Yes, I'm interested. cool let's talk more post meeting paroneayea: I'll have to go AFK right after but I should be able to catch you another time this weekend. [11:59] BjarniRunar: good point, it was the first thing that came to mind when I were to distinguish marketing-oriented upload limit vs tech-oriented upload limit BjarniRunar: that's how flickr does it, but whatever, it's just have a limit and you can update it however maybe it's proportional to the number of bitcoins you have... we should make it easy to adjust the limit :) Yeah, it does sound like the kind of thing freemium providers do to create artificial scarcity :) okay, we have 3 minutes left, I want schendje to have an opportunity to talk about the new wireframe for a new mediagoblin.org: http://schendje.fedorapeople.org/goblin/homepage/wireframe3.png [12:00] basically, this would eliminate the tour page for one and reorg the current design I had a number of criticisms but I think they're satisfied now :) I love the layout [12:01] schendje: maybe we should make each one of those left icons roughly be a color of gavroche or his clothes :) I have some text tweaks *** niqqqqqqnaqqqqqq (help@p5084D06A.dip.t-dialin.net) is now known as niqnaq yeah, it'd be great if everyone had a look at that to tell me what they think :) freedeb: text tweaks are greatly needed! tan slacks, red coat, purple skin, reddish purple scarf ;) *** wctype_t (~type_t@c-68-51-111-96.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined channel #mediagoblin the copy on the whole page is made up by me, so it's all nonsense freedeb: I believe it's placeholders, see point 4, row 2 in "MediaGoblin is..." joar: +1 [12:02] freedeb: so yeah, if we move this into a new design we'll def give you a chance to tweak text :) yeah, I'm guessing "free software is funsies" is placeholder text :) haha anyhow, with this redesign I tried to accomplish a number of things, but I can't really talk about that now because I have to go :) that's mediagoblin's new tagline I'll tell you what I'll do... "free software media for funsies" I'll create a wiki page for this schendje: sounds great describing why I made this design in the first place [12:03] and then post mockups there and others can post feedback schendje: yes, I'd love to read that cool :) sweet alright, cool and BAM, that's it! end of meeting! and we blew through the agenda mostly! :) hooray! if anyone else is going to OSCON besides paroneayea and myself [12:04] greate :-) it woud be great to know *** End of conference *** ;) bye, where are getting some food ;-) later edu! we're looking into doing some hacking that week **** END MEETING LOGGING! ****