2011-08-06T12:01:47  *** lorochka85 has quit IRC
2011-08-06T12:01:57  <willkg> THIS CHANNEL IS NOW BEING LOGGED!
2011-08-06T12:02:06  <willkg> gmgbot: config supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger.enabled
2011-08-06T12:02:06  <gmgbot> willkg: Error: 'supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger.enabled' is not a valid configuration variable.
2011-08-06T12:02:06  <paroneayea> :)
2011-08-06T12:02:11  <paroneayea> heh
2011-08-06T12:02:15  <willkg> gmgbot: config supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger.enable
2011-08-06T12:02:15  <gmgbot> willkg: Global: True; #mediagoblin: True
2011-08-06T12:02:18  <j1mc> :)
2011-08-06T12:02:32  <paroneayea> okay :)
2011-08-06T12:02:33  <willkg> j1mc: i'm super duper sorry i haven't replied to your wiki-related email.
2011-08-06T12:02:43  <paroneayea> so! first of all: I think it's worth patting ourselves on the back for 0.0.4 :)
2011-08-06T12:02:47  <j1mc> willkg: no worries at all whatsoever
2011-08-06T12:02:57  <freedeb> hooray!
2011-08-06T12:03:05  <paroneayea> I think we are right on track for 0.1.0 and I'm pretty excited about things in general :)
2011-08-06T12:03:13  <j1mc> :)
2011-08-06T12:03:40  <paroneayea> so
2011-08-06T12:03:59  <paroneayea> time to talk about 0.0.5 / 0.1.0 goals.
2011-08-06T12:05:17  <paroneayea> abstractly: this is us shooting for something we can put up live next month
2011-08-06T12:06:12  <paroneayea> that means a lot of stuff on coding/infrastructure/graphic design/docs :)
2011-08-06T12:06:44  <paroneayea> I put up stuff at the bottom of http://lists.mediagoblin.org/pipermail/devel/2011-August/000035.html on the mailing list
2011-08-06T12:07:02  <paroneayea> ... and so I guess now we should sync tasks?
2011-08-06T12:07:18  <paroneayea> I'm not sure if I'm handling this right, I always start talking in here and then maybe people aren't okay with talking up!
2011-08-06T12:07:43  <freedeb> are there things on the list that need to happen before the other things can happen?
2011-08-06T12:07:55  <j1mc> you're doing great from over here.
2011-08-06T12:07:57  <freedeb> like what needs to happen before playtesting can take place?
2011-08-06T12:08:18  <freedeb> (usability testing)
2011-08-06T12:08:21  <paroneayea> hm
2011-08-06T12:08:41  <paroneayea> it might help to have our docs a bit easier, our current docs are aimed at developers wanting to get the stuff up and runnign
2011-08-06T12:08:49  <paroneayea> so that's all in the "hacking howto"
2011-08-06T12:09:00  <paroneayea> I'm not sure that's obvious for users who just want to run it
2011-08-06T12:09:05  <paroneayea> I'd be curious what j1mc has to say!
2011-08-06T12:09:10  <paroneayea> and willkg :)
2011-08-06T12:09:35  <willkg> so...  j1mc did an awesome couple of emails and i haven't had a chance to work through them, reply, and help on that front.
2011-08-06T12:09:54  <willkg> for 0.0.4, i moved some things out of docs/ and tossed them willy-nilly into the wiki.
2011-08-06T12:09:58  <willkg> the wiki needs a lot of work.
2011-08-06T12:10:36  <j1mc> i'd be willing to help on the wiki
2011-08-06T12:10:46  <paroneayea> that would be pretty great.
2011-08-06T12:10:51  <j1mc> are we all ok with having the admin / developer stuff on the wiki...
2011-08-06T12:10:58  <j1mc> and having the end-user stuff in the docs?
2011-08-06T12:10:59  <paroneayea> j1mc: I'm okay with that
2011-08-06T12:11:01  <paroneayea> yes
2011-08-06T12:11:02  <willkg> j1mc: you know mediawiki well, right?  i don't know how to do wiki organizing very well.
2011-08-06T12:11:29  <j1mc> i'm not super-familiar with mediawiki, but i'm sure i can look to other examples
2011-08-06T12:11:33  <willkg> so, i think the admin stuff should go in the manual, too.
2011-08-06T12:11:40  <freedeb> I'd be happy to give you some feedback on readability for folks w/o a CS degree
2011-08-06T12:11:42  <willkg> the manual should be for site administrators really.
2011-08-06T12:11:58  <freedeb> that's re: the enduser docs
2011-08-06T12:12:13  <j1mc> freedeb: thanks  :)
2011-08-06T12:12:19  <paroneayea> will the manual be both for site administrators and for like "tutorial of the site"
2011-08-06T12:12:30  <willkg> also, i want to codify the names we're giving these groups.  we have two very different groups of "users".
2011-08-06T12:12:32  <paroneayea> or are we expecting that the site will be pretty self-explanatory and if it isn't we're doing it wrong?
2011-08-06T12:12:38  <paroneayea> right
2011-08-06T12:12:42  <j1mc> willkg: so you think that admin/setup docs and end-user docs should be in the sphinx-docs, and the dev stuff should be in the wiki?
2011-08-06T12:12:44  <willkg> i think the "user who is going to post pictures" documentation should be part of mediagoblin--not the docs/ directory.
2011-08-06T12:13:37  <paroneayea> that sounds sensible
2011-08-06T12:13:41  <willkg> the docs/ will be shipped in the tarball and so it needs to cover site administration.
2011-08-06T12:13:42  <j1mc> willkg: you mean, part of mediagoblin.org... the site itself?
2011-08-06T12:13:58  <willkg> ok.  so "mediagoblin.org" is the project site.  it's not a mediagoblin instance.
2011-08-06T12:14:01  <paroneayea> j1mc: more like mediagoblin.com / running instances
2011-08-06T12:14:18  * j1mc nods. that helps
2011-08-06T12:14:19  <paroneayea> mediagoblin.com will actually run mediagoblin, and so will dpic's free cultrue sites and etc
2011-08-06T12:14:22  <willkg> i think the user manual for users who are using a mediagoblin instance service should be part of the mediagoblin code.
2011-08-06T12:14:27  <paroneayea> and etc
2011-08-06T12:14:27  <paroneayea> yeah
2011-08-06T12:14:33  <willkg> it should be under /help or something like that.
2011-08-06T12:14:36  <willkg> or /h/ .
2011-08-06T12:14:38  <paroneayea> one exception maybe:
2011-08-06T12:14:38  <paroneayea> the API
2011-08-06T12:14:44  <j1mc> ah, yes. +1
2011-08-06T12:14:47  <willkg> the API is developer related.  that would go in the wiki.
2011-08-06T12:15:00  *** wctype_t has quit IRC
2011-08-06T12:15:08  <joar> But "Configuring MediaGoblin" should be part of docs/
2011-08-06T12:15:19  <paroneayea> joar: yes, I think so :)
2011-08-06T12:15:19  <j1mc> so... dev docs on the wiki, admin-y docs in /docs and user-help for "how do i post my goblins" in /help
2011-08-06T12:15:22  <willkg> yes.  because that's something a site admin needs.
2011-08-06T12:15:30  <paroneayea> so actually configuration is a good example
2011-08-06T12:15:36  <willkg> +1 -- plus i like that explanation of the breakdown.
2011-08-06T12:15:37  <paroneayea> there's two things we'd want to describe
2011-08-06T12:15:55  <paroneayea>  - how administrators would configure their instance
2011-08-06T12:16:08  <paroneayea>  - how developers understand the config infrastructure and how to add options
2011-08-06T12:16:14  <joar> I think it does feel like we have the wrong infrastructure in the wrong place. Sphinx fits best for API docs, MediaWikie fits best for text.
2011-08-06T12:16:39  <willkg> paroneayea: i don't understand what you're getting at.
2011-08-06T12:16:43  <paroneayea> joar: because of the "auto extraction of API stuff"?
2011-08-06T12:16:54  <paroneayea> willkg: just explaining an example where the former might be in sphinx and the latter on the wiki
2011-08-06T12:17:10  <joar> paroneayea: Yes, you often see sphinx like it is on docs.python.org.
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2011-08-06T12:17:18  <paroneayea> yeah
2011-08-06T12:17:23  <paroneayea> do we really want to do the auto extraction of API stuff though?
2011-08-06T12:17:32  <paroneayea> personally I find it always easier to just RTFSC
2011-08-06T12:17:41  <joar> It would be handy wouldn't it?
2011-08-06T12:17:46  <willkg> sometimes it is.
2011-08-06T12:18:04  <willkg> we can do auto extraction as a separate thing, though.  it doesn't have to be part of docs/ .
2011-08-06T12:18:20  <willkg> so, the thing with docs/ is that we build the HTML form and the Texinfo form and ship those in the tarball.
2011-08-06T12:18:24  <joar> Yes, but wouldn't that mean another instance?
2011-08-06T12:18:46  <joar> and then we would have a MediaWiki AND a Sphinx instance for admin/devs
2011-08-06T12:18:56  <joar> devs*
2011-08-06T12:19:09  <joar> admins are the proposed docs/, right
2011-08-06T12:20:04  <joar> -- Honestly I can't come up with a better solution myself. I guess that we really need to ship administration documents with the tarball.
2011-08-06T12:21:27  <j1mc> i'm open on this - as long as we document the stuff, and make it clear where stuff is.
2011-08-06T12:21:28  <paroneayea> I think if necessary when we want the auto-extracted API stuff, it's okay to have a seprate place for that even though it's one more thing
2011-08-06T12:21:35  <paroneayea> I don't think people explore that too much
2011-08-06T12:21:51  <paroneayea> and I think we have to do it with the admin docs in sphinx... there's another reason why this really makes sense and that's because we need to ship texinfo versions of the user/administrator docs as part of the GNU project
2011-08-06T12:22:01  <paroneayea> so that helps us make the decision for us :)
2011-08-06T12:22:04  <willkg> one possibility is to write a builder/writer for outputting sphinx stuff in mediawiki format.
2011-08-06T12:22:06  <j1mc> cool
2011-08-06T12:22:10  <joar> paroneayea: Yes, because we don't want to replace MediaWiki with Sphinx, since MediaWiki is much more easier to collaborate as a larger group with.
2011-08-06T12:22:18  <willkg> then we just do a shim to move stuff between the source code and the wiki.
2011-08-06T12:22:31  <willkg> (just thinking out loud)
2011-08-06T12:22:36  <paroneayea> joar: right, which matters more for devs than end-users mostly
2011-08-06T12:22:57  <paroneayea> (except for some small "how to get X strange setup working on X strange example" type one-off wiki docs)
2011-08-06T12:23:09  <j1mc> pandoc can convert portions of rST to mediawiki forat
2011-08-06T12:23:11  <j1mc> format
2011-08-06T12:23:21  <paroneayea> okay, maybe we can look at that in the future
2011-08-06T12:23:28  <willkg> j1mc: the autodoc stuff is part of sphinx--not docutils.
2011-08-06T12:23:43  <paroneayea> well, I think we're not doing it yet, we have some options for the API stuff
2011-08-06T12:23:48  <paroneayea> let's start moving forward with j1mc's plan
2011-08-06T12:23:58  <willkg> +1 on j1mc's plan.
2011-08-06T12:24:13  <j1mc> for now we're ok with having mediawiki=dev docs, /help (sphinx) being user docs, and /docs being admin-y docs?
2011-08-06T12:24:35  <paroneayea> /help/ might even just be templates
2011-08-06T12:24:36  <willkg> yes, except /help isn't going to be sphinx.
2011-08-06T12:24:37  <paroneayea> but we'll see
2011-08-06T12:24:43  <willkg> +1 on it being just templates.
2011-08-06T12:24:46  <j1mc> ok
2011-08-06T12:24:47  <joar> +1
2011-08-06T12:24:50  <j1mc> +1
2011-08-06T12:24:51  <paroneayea> just like normal mediagoblin jinja templates
2011-08-06T12:24:55  <paroneayea> it'll integrate with the rest of the site
2011-08-06T12:24:55  <paroneayea> great
2011-08-06T12:24:57  <j1mc> gotcha
2011-08-06T12:24:59  <paroneayea> glad we got this nailed down!
2011-08-06T12:25:03  <j1mc> w00t
2011-08-06T12:25:11  <willkg> i'll write up an issue for overhauling this.  give me a minute....
2011-08-06T12:25:15  <paroneayea> I don't think users want to read /help/ much anyway, they just want things to be straightforward
2011-08-06T12:25:34  <joar> "faq"
2011-08-06T12:25:36  <j1mc> well, some users read the help.  :)
2011-08-06T12:25:36  <paroneayea> willkg: could you do that immediately post-meeting?  I'd like to not stop the meeting
2011-08-06T12:25:44  * j1mc looks around the room
2011-08-06T12:25:55  <paroneayea> j1mc: :)
2011-08-06T12:25:56  <freedeb> secretly users like to feel like they are smart enough to not even need help
2011-08-06T12:26:07  <gullydwarf> for end-users, I like tooltips. User can turn them off, otherwise, helpful messages that show up the first time through the interface, and then the user can scroll back through them later as needed
2011-08-06T12:26:07  <paroneayea> okay
2011-08-06T12:26:25  <willkg> paroneayea: i can do it while we continue the meeting.
2011-08-06T12:26:32  <paroneayea> willkg: okay that works
2011-08-06T12:26:41  <willkg> paroneayea: i think i want to double-check that it covers everything correctly.
2011-08-06T12:26:41  <paroneayea> so we have some more things on the list, and I wonder if anyone wants to add anything else
2011-08-06T12:26:59  <paroneayea> usually we end up breaking off from IRC and we all collaborate on a task list on openetherpad
2011-08-06T12:27:09  <paroneayea> I wonder if we should do a bit more discussion first?
2011-08-06T12:27:23  <joar> how's the theming going?
2011-08-06T12:27:44  <freedeb> I think we should get the theming sorted before we have people test
2011-08-06T12:27:51  <paroneayea> joar: we're kind of in an uncertain space with the theming...
2011-08-06T12:28:09  <freedeb> since that's one of the things that impacts cleanliness
2011-08-06T12:28:24  <paroneayea> freedeb: I'm not sure we'll get the theming nailed down til right at the end of the month though
2011-08-06T12:28:27  <joar> I think it would be good to get a clean theme to start with
2011-08-06T12:28:44  <paroneayea> so jef has been experimenting with a new theming setup moving from our colors to greyscaleish stuff
2011-08-06T12:28:55  <paroneayea> we're in this position where he's trying to figure out several things at once:
2011-08-06T12:29:00  <paroneayea>  - the coloring theme
2011-08-06T12:29:03  <paroneayea>  - the font
2011-08-06T12:29:04  <paroneayea>  - the logo
2011-08-06T12:29:14  <paroneayea> and they're all interlinked
2011-08-06T12:29:21  <joar> õ/
2011-08-06T12:29:26  <joar> oops,
2011-08-06T12:29:39  <paroneayea> until we nail down one of them it seems like he's unsure of what the final things are
2011-08-06T12:29:53  <paroneayea> jes toupee'ed joar, I see you raising your hand
2011-08-06T12:29:56  <paroneayea> *yes
2011-08-06T12:29:57  <paroneayea> what is it :)
2011-08-06T12:30:15  <paroneayea> so here's the thing, schendje is on vacation for two weeks.
2011-08-06T12:30:26  <joar> paroneayea: I intended to raise both of my hands, but insstead I did that.
2011-08-06T12:30:36  <paroneayea> I think as soon as he gets back he's going to try and nail this all down it sounds like.
2011-08-06T12:30:51  <paroneayea> when he gets back
2011-08-06T12:30:58  <paroneayea> I think currently things look not bad though semi unclear
2011-08-06T12:31:08  <paroneayea> I think we can do user testing, with the caveat that the theme is not totally clear
2011-08-06T12:31:15  <paroneayea> things have been iterative
2011-08-06T12:31:16  <joar> Yes, it's two different conventions right now.
2011-08-06T12:31:18  <freedeb> ok, it sounds like we can't get into the theme w/o him here
2011-08-06T12:31:31  <paroneayea> for example, aldeka submitted a whole bunch of user experience bugs
2011-08-06T12:31:39  <paroneayea> without the theme pined down
2011-08-06T12:31:41  <paroneayea> and they were already useful
2011-08-06T12:31:45  <paroneayea> er, pinned down
2011-08-06T12:31:51  <willkg> http://bugs.foocorp.net/issues/483 covers the documentation overhaul.
2011-08-06T12:32:00  <paroneayea> willkg: great :)
2011-08-06T12:32:11  <paroneayea> freedeb: so basically I don't see that we have a choice
2011-08-06T12:32:17  <paroneayea> ideally I'd like to get that pinned down first
2011-08-06T12:32:25  <paroneayea> but it's either wait on user experience testing
2011-08-06T12:32:32  <willkg> i think it's ok to do user testing and fix user experience issues even if we don't have the theme down pat.
2011-08-06T12:32:38  <paroneayea> or do it before the theming is finished
2011-08-06T12:32:48  <paroneayea> willkg: you have a lot of experience with this in miro
2011-08-06T12:32:52  <willkg> i suspect a lot of the user experience things are workflow related, names of labels, ...
2011-08-06T12:32:53  <paroneayea> ish :)
2011-08-06T12:33:03  <willkg> uh...  not really.  i suspect i still suck at ux stuff.
2011-08-06T12:33:04  <paroneayea> yes, I think so too
2011-08-06T12:33:05  <freedeb> ok, so UX w/o "look"
2011-08-06T12:33:12  <paroneayea> freedeb: right
2011-08-06T12:33:14  <paroneayea> freedeb: so here's the thing
2011-08-06T12:33:21  <willkg> freedeb: yeah...  so it's as if we're doing UX stuff with mock-ups.
2011-08-06T12:33:24  <paroneayea> I think we should give our user experience testers heavy caveats
2011-08-06T12:33:24  <freedeb> and then another quickie round when the theme's on?
2011-08-06T12:33:38  <freedeb> I'm willing to do soem some UX feedback
2011-08-06T12:33:40  <paroneayea> but ask them to still point out whatever they think
2011-08-06T12:33:53  <paroneayea> I think it'll help inform schendje's choices anyway
2011-08-06T12:33:56  <paroneayea> it could help improve our theme!
2011-08-06T12:34:02  <willkg> what's the advantage to giving them heavy caveats?  i think that would just cause them to not mention things.
2011-08-06T12:34:08  <paroneayea> honestly I think user experience based theming is pretty great.
2011-08-06T12:34:09  <paroneayea> okay
2011-08-06T12:34:13  <paroneayea> maybe true
2011-08-06T12:34:33  <paroneayea> just mention that it's in flux, but their input should help us figure out proper direction?
2011-08-06T12:35:19  <joar> I think user input on theming would be good, constructive criticism.
2011-08-06T12:35:21  <paroneayea> so also, someone needs to carry the torch on this user experience testing stuff
2011-08-06T12:35:33  <paroneayea> I think freedeb would be a great candidate for that, if she's interested
2011-08-06T12:35:45  <freedeb> sure
2011-08-06T12:35:51  <paroneayea> okay, great
2011-08-06T12:36:03  <freedeb> aldeka's already been helping right?
2011-08-06T12:36:08  <paroneayea> yes
2011-08-06T12:36:29  <paroneayea> aldeka did some awesome work this week already
2011-08-06T12:36:37  <freedeb> to get more people to take a look there will need to be a pretty easy way for them to test drive
2011-08-06T12:36:51  <paroneayea> maybe you can co-lead :)
2011-08-06T12:36:54  <paroneayea> freedeb: true
2011-08-06T12:37:04  <paroneayea> maybe we need an instance up and running for them to test
2011-08-06T12:37:07  <freedeb> is the current situation that they would download python, mongo, cerly, etc
2011-08-06T12:37:07  <paroneayea> one that won't stick around
2011-08-06T12:37:13  <freedeb> excellent
2011-08-06T12:37:18  <willkg> we should do a dev instance somewhere.
2011-08-06T12:37:26  <gullydwarf> I would recommend an EC2 instance for that
2011-08-06T12:37:31  <willkg> having people set it up locally just to do ux stuff is icky.
2011-08-06T12:37:38  <paroneayea> right
2011-08-06T12:37:40  <freedeb> you can put a password on it if you don't want it leaking to the world
2011-08-06T12:37:59  <freedeb> if soemone will set it up, I will get folks to look at it
2011-08-06T12:38:06  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: yeah ec2 or rackspace cloud would be good for a "throwaway" instance
2011-08-06T12:38:08  <freedeb> and collect their comments
2011-08-06T12:38:16  <paroneayea> does someone want to lead setting this up?
2011-08-06T12:38:25  <paroneayea> and coordinate with freedeb once it's up
2011-08-06T12:38:28  <gullydwarf> I can do the EC2 instance with one caviat
2011-08-06T12:38:30  <freedeb> next week will be a little crammed for me, so that setup person has a few days
2011-08-06T12:38:33  <gullydwarf> the bandwidth
2011-08-06T12:38:41  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: I'm willing to donate hosting money to you
2011-08-06T12:38:43  <gullydwarf> it's free for some limited amount
2011-08-06T12:39:11  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: it shouldn't be more than $50 probably right, for one month of testing?
2011-08-06T12:39:16  <gullydwarf> I am happy to set that up
2011-08-06T12:39:25  <gullydwarf> I would imagine so
2011-08-06T12:39:37  <gullydwarf> and hopefully there's some way of capping it
2011-08-06T12:39:44  <joar> What funds will the mediagoblin.com site run on?
2011-08-06T12:39:49  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: okay, let's talk post-meeting I'll paypal you the money
2011-08-06T12:39:56  <gullydwarf> aight, sweet
2011-08-06T12:40:03  <paroneayea> joar: freedeb, willkg and I are working on that :)
2011-08-06T12:40:13  <gullydwarf> I've been running an EC2 instance for a while
2011-08-06T12:40:23  <gullydwarf> the first month only cost .69 cents
2011-08-06T12:40:41  <gullydwarf> but no one was really using it, and I wasn't using a free-tier AMI
2011-08-06T12:40:48  <paroneayea> okay
2011-08-06T12:40:49  <gullydwarf> (linux distribution = AMI)
2011-08-06T12:40:54  <j1mc> quick question regarding the end-user docs. if they're just going to be templated using jinja templates... will they just be regular html or something?
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2011-08-06T12:41:06  <paroneayea> j1mc: yup
2011-08-06T12:41:07  <paroneayea> just regular HTML
2011-08-06T12:41:09  <joar> worth to note is that MediaGoblin has Rackspace Cloud Files support
2011-08-06T12:41:16  <willkg> j1mc: they could be.  we could do some kind of other format, though.
2011-08-06T12:41:32  <paroneayea> one advantage of regular HTML:
2011-08-06T12:41:34  <willkg> we want to think about making sure it works with the translation system.
2011-08-06T12:41:35  <paroneayea> {% trans %}
2011-08-06T12:41:42  <paroneayea> it'll be easy to make sure it'll be easy to translate
2011-08-06T12:41:45  <j1mc> cool
2011-08-06T12:41:57  <paroneayea> hiya paultag !
2011-08-06T12:42:02  <paultag> paroneayea: howdy doodie :)
2011-08-06T12:42:07  <paroneayea> paultag just joined from #openhatch and is interested maybe in helping!
2011-08-06T12:42:09  <j1mc> ok - i'll see what options might be good.
2011-08-06T12:42:14  <j1mc> hi paultag
2011-08-06T12:42:17  <paultag> howdy j1mc
2011-08-06T12:42:20  <paroneayea> paultag: we're in the middle of our 0.0.5 / 0.1.0 planning meeting
2011-08-06T12:42:33  <paroneayea> http://lists.mediagoblin.org/pipermail/devel/2011-August/000035.html
2011-08-06T12:42:33  <paroneayea> http://mediagoblin.org/news/index.html
2011-08-06T12:42:34  <paultag> Ah, sorry, scuse me for throwing a wrench in the middle of it
2011-08-06T12:42:34  <gullydwarf> joar: let's talk offline post-meeting with anyone else who's interested about minimizing costs with various storage backends
2011-08-06T12:42:38  <paroneayea> to get an idea of wehre we are.
2011-08-06T12:42:47  <paroneayea> paultag: no problem!
2011-08-06T12:42:49  <joar> gullydwarf: Yes
2011-08-06T12:43:04  <paroneayea> okay, so yes, let's finish that talk post-meeting
2011-08-06T12:43:07  <paroneayea> a lot more to cover still!
2011-08-06T12:43:31  <paroneayea> so there are two big infrastructure things I want to finish
2011-08-06T12:43:35  <paroneayea> one is translations
2011-08-06T12:43:44  <paroneayea> and honestly I have things mostly but not completely working with that
2011-08-06T12:43:51  <paroneayea> if someone wants to help me with that
2011-08-06T12:44:02  <paroneayea> we could get it extracting and pushing up to transifex
2011-08-06T12:44:35  <j1mc> what do you have set up right now, paroneayea
2011-08-06T12:44:52  <paroneayea> j1mc: currently you can extract things in the {% trans %} tags in the templates
2011-08-06T12:44:57  <paroneayea> but nothing is marked for {% trans %} !
2011-08-06T12:45:09  * j1mc nods
2011-08-06T12:45:16  <paroneayea> the python code is not setup properly for gettext() however
2011-08-06T12:45:17  <freedeb> I don't know if robmyersis in here
2011-08-06T12:45:27  <paroneayea> robmyers: ^^ ;)
2011-08-06T12:45:46  <freedeb> but for some reason I have this idea that he is savvy on translations
2011-08-06T12:45:53  <paroneayea> oooh
2011-08-06T12:46:06  <paroneayea> so there's that element to it.. .the other element is just blocking things out with {% trans %} all over the place
2011-08-06T12:46:13  <paroneayea> which is a super easy, new contributor type thing.
2011-08-06T12:46:23  <j1mc> i take it that we're talking about translating the interface strings? or something else?
2011-08-06T12:46:33  <paroneayea> j1mc: yes, interface
2011-08-06T12:46:45  <freedeb> marking the text users will read with the trans tag?
2011-08-06T12:46:50  <paroneayea> yeah
2011-08-06T12:46:54  <paroneayea> so ther's like
2011-08-06T12:47:04  <paroneayea> <h1>Welcome to MediaGoblin!</h1>
2011-08-06T12:47:04  <paroneayea> and you'd do
2011-08-06T12:47:14  <paroneayea> <h1>{% trans %}Welcome to MediaGoblin!{% endtrans %}</h1>
2011-08-06T12:47:24  <paroneayea> when there are variables involved it's slightly more complex but not by too much.
2011-08-06T12:47:29  <freedeb> oh! yeah I could do that
2011-08-06T12:47:34  <paroneayea> okay :)
2011-08-06T12:47:39  <freedeb> if there is a lot I could split it with soemone
2011-08-06T12:47:41  <willkg> paroneayea: is there an issue covering that?
2011-08-06T12:48:00  <paroneayea> willkg: there's a ticket for the translations infrastructure but not for {% trans %}ifying the templates
2011-08-06T12:48:18  * willkg nods.
2011-08-06T12:48:19  <j1mc> i could do some of it, i think.
2011-08-06T12:48:27  <paroneayea> okay
2011-08-06T12:48:28  <joar> paroneayea: Does {% trans %} provide any context?
2011-08-06T12:48:40  <paroneayea> joar: if you want to use variables you can do like
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2011-08-06T12:49:11  <paroneayea> {% trans title=media_entry.title %}This title is {{ title }}{% endtrans %}
2011-08-06T12:49:17  <paroneayea> is that what you meant?
2011-08-06T12:49:25  <paroneayea> and that's about as complex as it gets, not too hard.
2011-08-06T12:49:35  <willkg> paroneayea: context allows translators to distinguish between "view" in one place and "view" in another.
2011-08-06T12:49:47  <paroneayea> oh, I don't know.
2011-08-06T12:49:50  <willkg> where the two may not get translated the same because they're in different contexts.
2011-08-06T12:49:56  <paroneayea> I don't know enough about it.
2011-08-06T12:49:59  <willkg> it's a big problem with menus in desktop applications.
2011-08-06T12:50:01  <paroneayea> "probably not"
2011-08-06T12:50:19  <paroneayea> I'll look into it.
2011-08-06T12:50:30  <joar> paroneayea: I was thinking of context for the translators. If it's just a word like "Submit", it might be good to have context.
2011-08-06T12:50:44  <paroneayea> submit to your dark lord of darkness!
2011-08-06T12:50:59  <willkg> view the view!
2011-08-06T12:51:10  <paroneayea> okay, so I'll update the template ticket with the state of the tech side, and I'll create a new {% trans %} ify the templates ticket
2011-08-06T12:51:13  <paroneayea> then I'll ping the list
2011-08-06T12:51:14  <paroneayea> sound good?
2011-08-06T12:51:25  <j1mc> +1
2011-08-06T12:51:28  <joar> +2
2011-08-06T12:51:38  <willkg> Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
2011-08-06T12:51:39  <paroneayea> :)
2011-08-06T12:51:53  <willkg> just had to mention it.  i've never had a context where i could say that and have it fit into the conversation before.
2011-08-06T12:51:59  <freedeb> b
2011-08-06T12:52:09  <paroneayea> the other infrastructure thing is the "processing" code refactoring to make it more generic and also log failure properly and etc.  I'll be working on that next week...
2011-08-06T12:52:11  <gullydwarf> willkg: :)
2011-08-06T12:52:28  <paroneayea> I think that's a "I'll just ahve my head in it and I'll explain what it is once I finish and come up for air" thing
2011-08-06T12:52:45  <paroneayea> this is the last big infrastructure thing that's really been bothering me
2011-08-06T12:53:11  <paroneayea> and it'll pave the way for glorious things
2011-08-06T12:53:21  <paroneayea> like video suport!
2011-08-06T12:53:21  <paroneayea> then dpic will be happy.
2011-08-06T12:53:24  <j1mc> :)
2011-08-06T12:53:30  <paroneayea> so!
2011-08-06T12:53:35  <joar> <- too
2011-08-06T12:53:42  <paroneayea> there are other things we want to talk about but
2011-08-06T12:53:52  <j1mc> one more question about docs... (sorry) because this is a gnu project, do we have to use the gfdl for docs?
2011-08-06T12:53:58  <paroneayea> j1mc: nope
2011-08-06T12:54:02  <paroneayea> it's CC0 :)
2011-08-06T12:54:02  <j1mc> sweeeet
2011-08-06T12:54:04  <j1mc> ok
2011-08-06T12:54:13  <paroneayea> we're pioneering in the GNU space ;)
2011-08-06T12:54:30  <joar> For the HURD!
2011-08-06T12:54:34  <j1mc> sounds fine with me
2011-08-06T12:54:36  <paroneayea> so, usually we do this thing where we organize our tickets on http://openetherpad.org/mediagoblin-0-0-5-meeting
2011-08-06T12:54:38  <paroneayea> and claim them
2011-08-06T12:54:41  <paroneayea> joar: :)
2011-08-06T12:54:45  <paroneayea> do we want to do that now?
2011-08-06T12:54:54  <paroneayea> or is the meeting too long already :)
2011-08-06T12:55:01  <paroneayea> and do we already know what we want to do
2011-08-06T12:55:14  <gullydwarf> I get the sense we already have things covered
2011-08-06T12:55:36  <paroneayea> okay, so why dont we just ask if anyone wants to bring up other things they're working on or want to have happen
2011-08-06T12:55:55  <j1mc> i think i should focus on the wiki first. and also those trans tags.
2011-08-06T12:56:00  <j1mc> does that sound good to folks?
2011-08-06T12:56:09  <willkg> j1mc: +1
2011-08-06T12:56:10  <gullydwarf> +1, awesome :)
2011-08-06T12:56:12  <paroneayea> yes that makes sense
2011-08-06T12:56:19  <j1mc> ok
2011-08-06T12:56:23  <gullydwarf> I'm setting up the ec2
2011-08-06T12:56:24  <gullydwarf>  http://omgmg.dyndns.org:6543/
2011-08-06T12:56:27  <paroneayea> meanwhile gullydwarf  and maybe joar will work on setting up that site while I pay them money to do it :)
2011-08-06T12:56:35  <paroneayea> and then they'll coordinate with freedeb
2011-08-06T12:56:35  <willkg> i'm working on the bug tracker transition.
2011-08-06T12:56:53  <freedeb> hooray!
2011-08-06T12:56:53  <joar> I'll be on and off, my SO's ill.
2011-08-06T12:57:04  <freedeb> sorry to hear it
2011-08-06T12:57:05  <paroneayea> oh no, sorry to hear it joar
2011-08-06T12:57:08  <paroneayea> good luck
2011-08-06T12:57:25  <joar> Thanks :)
2011-08-06T12:57:26  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: wow sweet
2011-08-06T12:57:27  <gullydwarf> joar: best wishes
2011-08-06T12:57:34  <gullydwarf> paroneayea: :)
2011-08-06T12:57:40  <willkg> as a side note, i threw up a trac instance at http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ .
2011-08-06T12:57:42  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: PM or email me your paypal address
2011-08-06T12:57:49  <willkg> it doesn't have our bug data.
2011-08-06T12:57:54  <joar> willkg: Woo!
2011-08-06T12:58:10  <willkg> if people want to "play" with it and kick me about things that suck, that'd be really helpful.
2011-08-06T12:58:36  <gullydwarf> willkg: very cool
2011-08-06T12:58:38  <willkg> i'll wipe data and user accounts before i do the import.
2011-08-06T12:58:45  * j1mc nods
2011-08-06T12:59:47  <willkg> it gives us another wiki, but i'm going to nix that one.  i just haven't done it, yet.
2011-08-06T12:59:58  <paroneayea> good
2011-08-06T13:00:09  <paroneayea> willkg: thanks for doing this!
2011-08-06T13:00:19  <willkg> no problem.  sorry it's taken me so long, though.
2011-08-06T13:00:32  <paroneayea> OH
2011-08-06T13:00:37  <paroneayea> one more major thing!
2011-08-06T13:00:42  <paroneayea> licensing!
2011-08-06T13:00:46  <paroneayea> and not gmg licensing
2011-08-06T13:00:53  <paroneayea> I mean, CC licensing media and etc
2011-08-06T13:01:16  <paroneayea> I'm actually talking about this at work internally and we're looking at using mediagoblin's use case as an example to set up better CC licensing tools for applications
2011-08-06T13:01:18  <paroneayea> more on that shortly.
2011-08-06T13:01:23  *** Jarrhead has joined #mediagoblin
2011-08-06T13:01:29  <paroneayea> hiya Jarrhead !
2011-08-06T13:01:44  <paroneayea> okay
2011-08-06T13:01:50  <paroneayea> do we want to wrap up this meeting?
2011-08-06T13:01:57  <paroneayea> tasks immediately post-meeting?
2011-08-06T13:02:09  <paroneayea> we should post this log to the list for one thing
2011-08-06T13:02:22  <gullydwarf> minimizing back-end bandwidth requirements for omgmg
2011-08-06T13:02:26  <j1mc> i'm good with wrapping up
2011-08-06T13:02:32  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: :)
2011-08-06T13:02:42  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: that's a long discussion, presumably since it's mongo related
2011-08-06T13:03:01  <paroneayea> so also, some of us need to go through the tracker and mark things as 0.0.5
2011-08-06T13:03:12  <gullydwarf> sure, I would like to at least get it started. anytime is fine though
2011-08-06T13:03:25  <gullydwarf> question!
2011-08-06T13:03:33  <gullydwarf> what kind of uptime is expected for omgmg?
2011-08-06T13:03:44  <gullydwarf> so far it's been very reliable, but the question comes to mind
2011-08-06T13:03:50  <gullydwarf> is it, 'do the best you can'
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2011-08-06T13:04:04  <willkg> i'll post the log.
2011-08-06T13:04:09  <gullydwarf> or is it, 'if you can't do better than xxx, then hand it off to someone else' ?
2011-08-06T13:04:12  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: Ideally 100%, maybe "partially down while your migrations run and you restart the server"
2011-08-06T13:04:19  <paroneayea> wait
2011-08-06T13:04:22  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: what's omgmg
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2011-08-06T13:04:32  <paroneayea> is that the test you're running for user experience?
2011-08-06T13:04:39  <paroneayea> willkg: thanks
2011-08-06T13:04:41  <gullydwarf> that ec2 instance I linked to is omgmg
2011-08-06T13:04:46  <gullydwarf> http://omgmg.dyndns.org:6543/
2011-08-06T13:04:48  <paroneayea> I'd say meeting over, thanks all!
2011-08-06T13:04:53  <paroneayea> gullydwarf: gotcha
2011-08-06T13:05:05  <freedeb> thank you!